How do you talk to a cult member?
When people talk about QAnon, they talk about it as a cult. Some people believe the most ardent Trump supporters belong to a cult. But do they? What is a cult?
Wikipedia says that a cult is a social group, defined by its unusual beliefs or a common interest in a person, object or goal. This isn’t a settled definition — there is disagreement about the definition among the experts — but it’s a good working definition for this conversation. Those most devoted Trump supporters fit the definition of having a common interest in a person, and QAnon believers fit by holding unusual beliefs (despite the uncovering of Jeffrey Epstein’s bad behavior, most people believe that a conspiracy of a pedophile ring at the highest levels of government is outrageous.)
With Trump’s post-presidency approval rating at 38%, there are certainly quite a few people who still believe in him. And, after the Capitol riots, the positive ratings of his behavior are at 8% excellent. So, perhaps that 8% still belongs to the cult of Trump. That’s about 20 million adults! Edited to add: I am not talking about all Trump supporters! Only the most extreme.
But since Q hasn’t posted since October and many of his prophesies failing to come true, the QAnon cult may be imploding. The news reports that people are flailing. And with Trump no longer able to post on social media, his support may be fading.
Let’s listen to experts and people who have escaped cults to see what we can do to talk to people who still believe or even those who are starting to question their beliefs. What can we do to help them recover?
One person wears both hats. Steven Hassan who calls himself America’s Leading Cult Expert, is both an expert and someone who has recovered from a cult. He escaped from the Moonies cult when he was young and has devoted his life to helping people recover from cult experiences. He’s even written a book called The Cult of Trump. He says it’s a cult because Trump fits the characteristics of a cult leader, which are:
(1) Grandiose self-centered behavior
2) Fantasies of power, success, and attractiveness
3) Need for praise and admiration
4) Sense of entitlement
5) Lack of empathy
6) Antisocial behavior
7) Lying
8) Interpersonally exploitive
9) Sadistic
10) Harassment and silencing
11) Violence
12) Paranoia
13) Unable to trust friends and subordinates (allies + enemies)
Here’s a link to a video of Hassan explaining why he thinks Trump’s supporters are in a cult.
He names what is going on as “mind control.”
Another expert, Bob Altemeyer, who has studied both authoritarian leaders and authoritarian followers, would agree that there is a Trump cult. He has also published a book about Trump called The Authoritarian Nightmare with John Dean (of Watergate fame). Another relevant book of his is The Authoritarians, available for free at his website.
Instead of calling what’s going on “mind-control” like Hassan, Altemeyer would say that certain people have an ingrained tendency to want to follow authoritarian leaders. It makes them feel safer to do so and takes away any need for them to think for themselves. It’s not that they can’t think, they just don’t want to think! I describe it as having outsourced their thinking. As I’ve mentioned in my own book, Persuade, Don’t Preach, we all have the moral foundation of Respect for Authority. It’s just that this particular group has taken that to an extreme.
Dr. Bandy Lee, one of the first psychiatrists to speak out against Trump and author of the book Profile of a Nation: Trump’s Mind, America’s Soul, notes that Trump’s followers are emotionally bonded with him, and don’t see the harm he’s caused them. A recording of a QAnon supporter shared by a NY Times reporter on the podcast, The Daily, illustrated how cult members don’t see the effect the cult is having on them. This QAnon supporter described her days as being spent on the internet, traveling down the rabbit hole of the various QAnon theories, and said she’s the happiest she’s ever been.
But she was isolated from her family and friends, her voice was flat, and she didn’t convey much emotion. She sounded sort of robotic. Melissa Rein Lively, a “recovered” QAnon supporter, was involuntarily hospitalized before she recanted her beliefs. She had destroyed a mask display at Target (story here) and her husband ended up calling the cops. She claims her unhinged reactions were due to previously undiagnosed post-traumatic stress disorder and bipolar disorder.
Dr. Lee has the following prescription for helping people emerge out of the cult. First, she says, don’t try to challenge their beliefs. Cult believers will resist them. The QAnon supporter said she didn’t talk to her sister any more after the sister said she was concerned. Melissa Rein Lively ignored the friends who told her to “snap out of it.” Dr. Hassan describes how his father compiled evidence to reveal that Reverend Sun Young Moon wasn’t doing what he claimed to be doing, but it had no effect. It just awakened the defenses he had been programmed with.
So, if you want to persuade someone who’s involved in a cult, don’t say things like, “the Storm that QAnon predicted didn’t happen” or “Trump didn’t invoke martial law, did he?”. They already know this on some level but will resist it if it comes from outside. Second, Dr. Lee says to separate the believer from the cult. This has happened naturally since Trump has lost his megaphone, and Q has stopped posting. Third, Dr. Lee says to provide a warm, supportive environment that they can belong to, one where they can attain dignity.
Dr. Hassan gives more instruction on what it takes to help a cult member deprogram themselves. Family and friends can help by asking respectful questions in a warm and loving way and waiting a long time for an answer and then following up. This part is hard because we want to refute what we believe is false and we hate to sit in silence. But remember this isn’t a discussion. It doesn’t matter what you think, —not for this process. You aren’t deprogramming the person. They need to deprogram themselves; they need to start thinking for themselves instead of outsourcing it, even to you. Another expert I found gave this as an example of a non-judgmental question: “I really want to understand your thinking. Can you explain it to me?” Another series of questions you can ask are, “When did you start believing in this? What did you believe before this? What changed?” Dr. Hassan says that if you can get them to go back to the beginning, they may awaken themselves.
Dr Hassan cautions us to always act with respect, kindness and warmth and avoid conflict or harshness. You want to keep the dialogue open and civil and be collaborative rather than competitive. You can shortcut your success if you get angry or tell them what you think or even act condescending (like the sister who said, “I’m concerned about you.”). Remember, they need to make their own discoveries. Don’t tell them what to think!
An example of how this can work came from a computer programmer who created a Twitter thread about how he deprogrammed himself out of a cult. The catalyst was the realization that what the cult leader had said about computer programming made no sense. Because it was his field, it was very meaningful to him. That disconnect reawakened his desire to think for himself and he started reexamining what the leader had said. You’re trying to help the cult member discover those disconnects and do that reexamining for themselves.
So, just like the model I’ve been working with, cult deprogramming starts with asking questions and listening. The questions are a little different, but the listening is the same. Listening like this is hard. We want to talk; we want to put in our opinions, but they don’t matter. Remember that we don’t matter in this situation — they do.
What about the last two parts of my model, affirming and reframing? I think the affirming is a good idea, if you can find something neutral to agree with. You don’t want to agree with a belief that’s completely implausible, but perhaps a statement like, “Having a trustworthy leader is important” is something that could be useful. But for now, I would say stay away from reframing. That’s not what experts say to do in this situation.
Edited to add: Because of this newsletter, I was asked to read an advance copy of the book, Dragged into the Light: Sherry Shriner, the Rise of Her Reptilian Conspiracy Doomsday Cult, and the Crisis of Two American Realities by Tony Russo. It will be featured on the VICE newsmagazine documentary, The Devil You Know, Season 2 in March. What I learned from this vivid account of a defunct cult is how much it gave meaning and purpose to the lives of its members. If you have a cult member undergoing deprogramming in your life, they need to find another purpose or else they will be open to another similar idea. Next week’s newsletter will talk about other solutions that may be helpful. Subscribe so you don’t miss it.